[suggestion] Git repo and roadmap of the development

[tangar]

It would be great to know what developers up to, which new awesome features would wait players in future So may be its good to use something like TRAC: http://trac.edgewall.org/roadmap or any other tools as project is open-source.

Another thing - just to announce plans at forum in "Announcements"

[tangar]

Cool roadmap @ roguelike development: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php

Maybe setup similar system at website?

[Kurzel]

MAng has a nice one @ http://mangband.org/developer/roadmap

Perhaps Lightman or other non-admin contributors would care to list their patch concepts and progress?
Someone would have to host the service first, though~

[tangar]

Its not 'heavy' services in terms of hosting resources.. Maybe they could be hosted at the same server where website and forum atm? but first we need to define which system is the best for TomeNET.. There are huge amount of different Project management software and Bug tracking systems... I suppose we need web-based open-source system. Anyone got ideas/experience with such instruments?

Also maybe just take one of this two, cause they already used in roguelike development projects:
1) http://mangband.org/developer/roadmap works at https://trac.edgewall.org/
2) https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php works at http://www.mantisbt.org/

[tangar]

TomeNET got great dev team, but all people need to rest sometimes. As TomeNET is 100% non-commercial game it's quite logical that devs not always have time for project... And every long-term project needs fresh blood

So.. Right now TomeNET has some problems with fixing current bugs, maybe it would be good idea to use one of systems above or just some more common platform, like GitHub? It would be great if more people could contribute to game code and fix bugs.

I know that among TomeNET players there are several professional coders. But currently it's not really understandable for them - how to contribute and participate in project. I play TomeNET for 2 years and saw how people 'come and go', some wanted to help the game.. Why not to give them such possibility?

Maybe 'Official TomeNET GitHub' would consolidate more people around project, why not to try? If contributed code would be bad quality, it's always possible to refuse contribution and wait for better try.

p.s.
One of the best progress in development among roguelikes has DCSS - https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php . They got really cool approach, maybe it's good idea to take some ideas how to organize it from them https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... lp:process

[tangar]

It would be fun to understand which new features would be introduced in feature, which plans do devs have for new patches.

[AHrEJl]

Agree, roadmap is a greate idea to show what devs want add to game in future.

[tangar]

TomeNET needs public git repository

Roadmap.. hell to it

But what would be great to have - public git repository so TomeNET's community could contribute to the project. I believe there are several people around who are willing to contribute to the game.. Some of them are pretty able to do so.

The problem
We all know high standarts of TomeNET development and very strict policy for accepting /rfes. All this years devs made really amazing job in terms of preserving game very good balanced, there are no imba-classes.. when I start new character I could think about which race to take for it _for hours_; it's all because it so brilliant balanced. At the same time TomeNET become better and better with every new update; enhanced with new gameplay systems (like new spell system), new features, classes, abilities..

It's essential to keep such high standarts of game development. Thats why TomeNET git repo should have very strict policy in terms of accepting new commits. People who contribute to the code should understand that and do not take offense if their commits would be refused sometimes. There has to be no emotions, but trust to 'core dev team' who work at TomeNET for 17+ years and know what is good for TomeNET and what is bad.

Concept
1) It's time to create formalized way to contribute to the project for TomeNET community.
2) Lets 'core dev team' (current dev team) would take full control over new commits and would preserve very strict policy of game development.
3) Stupid/raw/broken/not_TomeNETish stuff should be refused without regret; nobody has to take offence about it. No drama -> Win. Everyone should finish their ideas to perfection and only after that send it to the core-git-repo.

Such a rigorous concept will prevent the counterproductive consequences that can arise in the environment of creative people working on such unusual (the most complex online game, eh?) open source project. And at the same moment, it’s time for TomeNET to open its doors to new developers. I really hope that the best online game in the World will be even better if development become truly open.

[tangar]

Why TomeNET doesn’t have public git? (opinion)

There is a discussion on Discord – why TomeNET doesn’t have public git? I’ll try to explain my vision on it.

I do not know for sure. I heard that devs got private git. Why is it private? Because devs decided like this. I believe that they got clear picture how game has to be and this picture is very hardcore. Most of other players (who also wanna contribute code) do not understand this concept clearly, so it’s easier for devs to fully control development than having debates – which stuff is good and which is bad. That’s why I suggested to have very strict rules in terms of new commits.. So devs wouldn’t need to spend a lot of time in debates and explaining (please note, that it’s all just my thoughts, I do not know really).

So for now, we (community) could suggest our help and kindly ask for allowing us to help. We ask because dev’s are not obliged to us to change something; actually I believe it’s another big reason for private development – reduce obligations to community and other people.

That’s why we have to suggest such concept of public git – which would preserve core-devs control over project and there wouldn’t be need for them to spend time over explaining why they refused that or this idea. I’ve noticed that if I suggest any idea – devs most of the time do not reply on email/message, but if they like the idea – it appears in time; if they do not like – it doesn’t. So I just suggest all the stuff and do not expect for devs to react somehow. They work on project in their free time and they are not obliged to explain their ‘moves’. So if we wanna to suggest our help in frames of public git – we have to ask for it with presentation of the concept in which nobody wouldn’t be offenced if he didn’t receive an explanation for a refuse of commit or something. They do not want conflicts and they do not want to explain (again it’s all my speculations).

Just imagine this example: one guy suggested (and commited) to add new monsters. He spend a lot of time on it. But right now game it perfectly balanced and there is not need for it, so devs refused commit. Guy is angry. He ask for explanations. And devs has to spend emotions and time for explaining. And it’s not one guy, but 10 guys. And not 1 time, but 100 times. I supposes – it’s the reason why devs do not want to make git public. So the only way to get to it – have concept when devs do not have obligations (and all know it) to explain their decisions.

Would coders accept such concept? Not all. Coders are proud ‘1337’ folks, everyone (almost) got his own strong opinion and think that it’s the only right one; they want explanations and demand answers. That’s why I suppose devs even didn’t try to propose public git; too much ’empty’ fuss. We have to propose it on favorable terms for them, so devs would have the same feeling of ‘no obligations to anyone’.

p.s.
All what you’ve read about – just my guesses. Maybe the reasons are different or there are no reasons at all.

[the_sandman]

Simple and obvious: if there are new things added, we want players to figure it out in the game, not spoiling everything through reading the code. On that front, there are things not yet discovered in game but they have been there in the code for many moons now.

Typically, releasing snapshots have always been sufficient to our contributors and curious people alike. For example, in the past Lightman have contributed (a HUGE list of) ego monsters before, and we worked with him and integrated them into the game, etc..

There's a heavier burden on casual contributors if they also have to learn git on top of everything else. Most of your other speculations are fairly superfluous.